Reasons Why Bachelor Group Bucks Are Harder to Hunt This can manifest itself when one buck exhibits what I call threat walking (ears pulled back, eyes rolled, bristled up hair, and stiff legged walking) toward another buck within the group. In addition, younger mature bucks within a bachelor group often try to gain favor with an older buck by grooming him. From this point on group hierarchy is tested on a daily basis. If your trail camera is starting to get pictures of bucks shedding their velvet you can assume that those bucks are either breaking out of their bachelor groups or are a few weeks away from doing so. A smooth draw followed by a labored breath reveals the moment of truth. CWD Roundup is the National Deer Associations (NDA) bi-monthly update on all things chronic wasting disease (CWD). Of course, bachelor groups arent likely to be seen in areas where few bucks survive beyond 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 years of age. If a buck is feeding nearby and notices it, he will walk over to the location, smell the urine, and lip curl. Research has shown that the average buck begins using a larger percentage of its established home range as the rut approaches, so movement patterns and locations of each buck in a bachelor group may change radically after the group dis-bands. 20 Photos That Show Just How Tough Whitetails Are, 3 Ways to Kill a Buck in the Last Weeks of Season, The Mid-Gun-Season Blues: When Times Get Tough. Personally, Ive seen as many as seven bucks in a group. Two mature bucks bonding in their bachelor group. Big numbers of bucks are actually two, three or more different bachelor groups that happen to come together and loosely comingle. Aggression within the group rises, and bucks begin to spar using their new antlers. For this reason they tend to feed in the same areas day after day. By the time a yearling reaches 1 years of age it has dispersed from its mother and her home range. Deer and Small Game Hunting and Trail Cams. Also, bachelor groups may allow local bucks to establish a basic dominance hierarchy through mild forms of aggression, which may reduce the amount of serious fighting necessary later. Read more: http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/whitetail/why-do-summer-bucks-disappear-in-the-fall/#ixzz4q7WaMknB. But come November, those same deer are trying to kill each other. I suspect those mega-groups are actually 2 or 3 different bachelor groups that happened to come together. I hunt in Jasper county outside of monticello. I hunted a 5-year-old buck in 2013 that ran with five yearling bucks for about three weeks. Just wondering when the bucks start breaking their bachelor groups and summer patterns and start doing different things. If you hunt a state with an early opener, take heed. (Don't Miss: 18 Secrets From Deer Scientists). These will be downwind of deer, out of sight from deer and quiet to walk on. Its opening day and an afternoon in a treestand is just what the doctor ordered. Usually I will see a few in June/July that have 4 or 5 nice bucks but 1 or 2 on cam and driving around is all I have seen this year and none were over 2 years of age, most were yearlings and I wouldn't really call that a bachelor group as during season I will see younger ones grouped up with each other or have a yearling tailing a 3 year old. This is where we cover all things deer hunting, from experts and whitetail trivia to news, gear, and hardcore hunting advice. The third step is to take advantage of the weather. So crazy to me. This is the reason it is crucial you tread lightly on your hunting property. Blog readers have emailed me over the years with reports of 15 to 19 bucks feeding and posturing together in a bean field in August! They are breaking up right now. Why do anything?? Phone: 1-800-209-DEER (3337) Bucks in an individual bachelor group are usually not related to each other. Three seasons ago they never did break up. Bucks in bachelor groups get along well and even groom each other, but they still establish a basic pecking order within the group using aggressive physical displays, vocalizations, or sometimes hoof-flailing. Make as small of a footprint as you can when preparing for the season. 33, 12.64 lbs. A fascinating aspect of bachelor group behavior is the way members transition from being "groupies" from winter through summer, to breaking up and going their separate ways come fall. Photo taken with the new Stealth Cam G42NG trail camera. I don't know why. But it also reminds you that velvet-clad bucks are still running in their early season bachelor groups. 20 Photos That Show Just How Tough Whitetails Are, 3 Ways to Kill a Buck in the Last Weeks of Season, The Mid-Gun-Season Blues: When Times Get Tough. Because very few mature bucks will accept yearling bucks they quickly learn to steer clear of mature, more dominant bucks. The break-up of bachelor group bucks typically occurs during the last two weeks of September. Looks like Ill have to continue reliving my past memories of Arizona success because there isnt an Arizona hunt in my 2020 future. Young bucks might also be seen together at this time of year, but thats typically because both bucks are not part of the breeding activities taking place and are non-dominate. Testosterone turns them into enemies. When the hardcore fighting starts you can count on bachelor groups splitting up right away. When do bachelor groups break up? The first is pressure. The Great Deception Breakup of the Bands Come mid-August, as the days begin to shorten, testosterone levels begin to rise in the bucks, triggering the hardening of antlers and the eventual breakup of the groups, though some of the smaller bucks may travel with mature ones into October. Bucks tend to use the same summer ranges and the same fall ranges each year. Scouting is the most important part of the early season equation; even more important than hunting. Thats the main take-away from the 2022, For the past two years, NDA was proud to voluntarily coordinate and host the largest national gathering of deer researchers, the Southeast Deer Study Group meeting, to ensure its continuation despite the pandemic. Soybean fields are a preferred food source during early season and a great spot to scout for bucks. link to 50 Deer Hunting Tips for Beginners. But as summer turns to fall, shrinking daylight brings dramatic changes. You have a deer downcongratulations! Thus, patterning a bachelor group may be useful where archery or firearms seasons open early enough, but the pattern will fade quickly in the pre-rut period. What is the best way to see this unfold in person? But hey, thats just the way it is. For yearling bachelor groups, its often two. We see it here all the time too - some bucks just leave when the bachelor groups break up and they shed their velvet. Would the fact that he is still in his bed in February when most deer are in groups, possibly consider that he is always in his bed or that hell move into that area when bachelor groups break up. With plenty of Rut Predictions out there, Deer dont have smartphones with weather apps to forecast whats to come, but they sure do sense it, and their, With whitetail season coming to a close, hopefully youve had a bit of luck out there. Saw a nice 10 tues. night making a scrape about 60yds away from my food plot and he had a 8pt in tow. It all depends on how safe the deer feel. The old saying holds true for deer, too. Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Nothing you can plant and no amount of reduced human interaction will change things. When this happens, get ready. This Was the Last Thing Taxidermists Were Expecting to Find Inside Idiots Disturb Hunter: How Would You Have Handled It? Those same levels reach a point between late August and early September that causes a change in whitetails. In spring, however, bucks are alone or form small groups. I saw him almost every night when hed come out into that bean field, he said. Homepage Forums Talk Huntin Scouting pre or post bachelor group breakup. However, the opportunity to kill a mature buck using his summer pattern could still be there for you based on the scenarios we discussed in this article. Where They Go Once bucks start breaking up, that predictability flies out the window. You act like who youre around. The second step is to plan your entry and exit routes to that stand location. September 1 in Nebraska. A full-time freelance writer since 2008, he has written for numerous national hunting magazines. The month of August has many hunters excited, as they think they have the deer patterned. And its time to capitalize on that fact. In populations with healthy and diverse age structures, older deer may form exclusive bachelor groups, and younger deer may form separate ones. The bucks you'vebeen observing are likely still in the area. Whitetail PlayBook: Choosing Food Plot Forages, Whitetail Playbook:Apple Tree Maintenance for Deer and Better Deer Hunting, Whitetail Playbook: Scouting Reading The Winter Whitetail Blueprint, Venison Masterpiece:Venison Philly Cheese Steak Sandwich Recipe, Whitetail Playbook:Trail Camera Game Changer Silica Gel Packs. Grandaddy said a guns just like a woman son, it's all in how ya hold her. The feed on a regular routine and travel the same paths. I dont wanna go back into the area unless I have a bow in my hands and I am 90% sure the buck is back in his bed. Very few times will you see a yearling buck running with older deer. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, The Shift - Part 2: The Transition Of Bucks From Summer To Fall Ranges Wired To Hunt, Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Pre-season and early-season bucks bed close to food sources. It won't be long before the velvet comes offand everything changes. These soft, summer evenings in mid-July and August are when I officially start my scouting for the upcoming deer season. If your season opens Sept. 1, you have a week, at best, to utilize what you learned during summer scouting. Another location to find high concentrations of deer is near a good water source. Service to others, when nothing is expected in return, is likely the largest measure of greatness in men. Best take advantage of bachelor group tendencies while you can. At this time of year, bucks are already starting to break out of their bachelor groups and shifting their home ranges. For mature bachelor groups, the most common range Ive seen is three to four. They are the fastest growing bone material known, Yes, we know venison backstrap is absolutely delicious as a stand-alone cut of meat, but every now and then its, There are a handful of age-old debates that will never die among deer hunters. In the bucks case, how they socialize with other bucks is predicated on their personality, age, and social position within the herd. Bogart, GA 30622 It reminds you the summer heat isnt over just yet. Two mature bucks in a summer bachelor group leaving their scent on a licking branch. Hang cameras on trails between heavy bedding cover and the current food source of choice. thanx. The Best Way to Cook Chanterelle Mushrooms, 12 Reasons Why Your Venison Tastes Like Hell, Bobcat Hanging From Overpass Shatters Car's Windshield. During this time, about two to three weeks prior to the pre-rut, bucks will tolerate each other less and less and will start shifting their home ranges to begin living on their own. Truth is, these mega-groups are rare. A buck on the move. A bachelor group of mature bucks feeding during a summer evening. Hunting season is on the horizon and your freezer is still loaded with game from the previous year or two. This is usually true in most states throughout the Midwest. By early October bachelor group behavior has pretty much ended as bucks begin to cover greater amounts of ground. Make sure you are in a stand when they take place. maybe some pictures will solve this dilemma but there wont be any near his bed or the exact pattern that he takes, but maybe in the food plot in which he feedssometimes, please disregard dont know how this happened, Hope yall have a happy 4th of July weekend and focus on the great things about the USA! Heres what you need to know about them. Seasons are opening up all across the country. All summer, bucks hang out with their buddies, mainly resting and feeding, in what are commonly called bachelor groups. This is one thing that I've never really even thought about.when do the bachelor groups in everyone's areas typically break up and the bucks start to stake out their own territories? I cannot talk or blog about bachelor groups without my mind always going back to John Schmucker and the enormous buck he killed in Ohio back in 2006. Bucks in an individual bachelor group are usually not related to each other, Forming groups may aid in predator avoidance at a time when bucks are relatively defenselesswhen antlers are growing and vulnerable to damage. One of my employees radio-collared a number of bucks and learned that the average buck relocates roughly 600 yards from August to October. As day length begins to shorten (mid-August and September) testosterone levels (in the bucks) begin to rise, triggering the hardening of antlers and shedding of velvet. And the good Lord willing, youll be right in the middle of a big bachelor group this season. This is usually a buck still running with his mother. Soon after, three shooter bucks step into view a mere twenty yards away. sometimes I see bachelor groups break up right after shedding velvet and other times I'll see em together through first week of October. Bucks will break up from their bachelor groups at roughly the same time of year and do it repeatedly year-after-year. This can make them either easier or harder to kill, situation depending. Youll probably see one of two things when you see a bachelor group: a group of mature bucks or a group of young bucks. Get out and speed-scout diverse areas just ahead of theseason. It's during this time that bucks are seemingly the most predictable. Also, bachelor groups may allow local bucks to establish a basic dominance hierarchy through mild forms of aggression, which may reduce the amount of serious fighting necessary later when bucks can be injured critically or killed. Pan Seared Duck Breast with Blackberry Wine Sauce, Fried Backstrap with Spicy Remoulade Dipping Sauce, The Best Way to Cook Chanterelle Mushrooms, 12 Reasons Why Your Venison Tastes Like Hell, Bobcat Hanging From Overpass Shatters Car's Windshield. I would expect a couple of them to stay. Rut is coming soon to us..so I expect them to break up anytime, but the cam I checked last week has them together every day. Pan Seared Duck Breast with Blackberry Wine Sauce, Fried Backstrap with Spicy Remoulade Dipping Sauce. They will likely move much earlier during daylight which can put opportunity in the palm of your hands. Other bucks that see what is going on will often follow suit. I have a bachelor group of 5 bucks still running together. When the Amish hunter went out with his crossbow on September 30 that year, the first deer he spotted was one of the little guys. Live scouting from afar can be implemented or trail cameras can be posted to monitor activity. Yup watched a group of bachelor bucks friday evening, they fed together, and then left the plot together. (Don't Miss:Prep Now For Your Best Deer Season Yet). When you do, it's an uncommon scenario where they gained acceptance by the boss buck. Suburban Buck on the home page question.so what is the normal method. That one thing is food. Site by Gray Loon. Hunters are finally able to see what has been growing all summer long. I understand how bucks are typically in bachelor groups through out summer and then they start breaking about before the rut (in my area they start breaking up middle of September-middle of October). Dont think for a second that bucks wont duke it out because theyre a little soft on top. That really opened up my eyes to this subject of buck dispersal. Whitetail Addictions Summer Get Together was Awesome, This topic has 1 reply, 1 voice, and was last updated. Bucks in bachelor groups get along well and even groom each other, but they still establish a basic pecking order within the group using aggressive physical displays,vocalizations, or sometimes hoof-flailing. You can get in touch with me by filling out your name and email below. Charles Alsheimer is an award-winning outdoor writer, nature photographer, lecturer, and whitetail consultant from Bath, New York. During the months that mature bucks range together they often pair up with another buck of like personality within the group. Similar threads Long brows on this guymidday bachelor group Jim Boyd The third reason is camaraderie. Look for tracks in moist areas. At this point, aggression within the group rises, and bucks begin to spar using their new antlers. The older buck will not always tolerate this approach, but if he does it is a way for the younger buck to gain acceptance. Once you have used all of the gathered data and chosen a location, half the battle is won. Bucks and does begin breeding at 15 to 16 months of age. Remember when moving in on a group of bachelor bucks to leave as little scent behind as possible. Dont overlook a good water source during your early season hunts; especially if its been a dry summer. Saw 2 bucks traveling together this past weekend the larger buck definately showed dominance. Chances are, if you have the food, you have the deer. Pronghorns are social animals, gathering in relatively large herds. After some early season scouting and several sightings of this buck feeding in an alfalfa field, Bowhunting.com staff member Dean Kreuger was able to move his treestand and get a shot. Im not sure why. If youre out scouting and looking for deer in fields right now, youre likely to spot at least one bachelor group of bucks. Lower SC. A gang of 2 to 3 to 8 bucks hanging out together in mid-summer is the norm, but I have seen as many as 12 boys in a group. Bachelor groups are interesting. I'm still seeing them together. The more time you or other hunters spend on the property, the less likely you are to see deer, especially older deer. Most bucks (not all) will run with other bucks from late winter to early fall. They obviously arent going to lock crowns while in velvet. But when I finally got in the stand, those yearling bucks came walking out into the field a full two hours before dark. If bachelor groups are run out of an area because of hunting pressure it may cause them to shift into their fall home ranges sooner. Any day now. All are racked bucks of different sizes. Buck Group Size: Two to 4 to 8 bucks hanging out together is typical in mid-August, but I have seen as many as 10 velvet-racked bucks in a late-summer group. More on that in a minute. Then it happens. Well provide the latest updates on CWD spread, research and policy from across North America. When it comes to whitetail bucks there is definitely a class systemso, it takes time for yearling bucks to be accepted into a mature bucks world. Some bucks just leave for whatever reason. Bucks influence one other on a regular basis. A few minutes later there he was! Pick appropriate entry routes. Though most are nothing more than shoving matches some can and do turn ugly. Also, bachelor groups may allow local bucks to establish a basic dominance hierarchy through mild forms of aggression, which may reduce the amount of serious fighting necessary later Bucks in bachelor groups get along well and even groom each other, but they still establish a basic "pecking order" within the group using aggressive physical displays, vocalizations, or sometimes hoof-flailing. Three to four to eight bucks hanging out together is pretty typical, but I have seen as many as 10 boys in a summer group. Bucks become less tolerant of each other and will establish their own territories and travel patterns in preparation for breeding season. Once velvet is peeled sparring rules the day. But come November, those same deer are trying to kill each other. Copy-cat behavior is also quite common within mature bachelor groups. Be persistent. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Sep 16, 2008 #8 nevamiss270 GONetwork Member Diamondbbtr said: During the summer, bucks are the best of buddies, even grooming each other and spending many carefree days bedding and feeding together. But bucks are likely to flail hooves, pin ears, raise hairs, stiffen legs, and snort wheeze even during the summer months. Around September 1st in the North a bucks testosterone level begins to rise and velvet is peeled. Finding a heavily-used water source can be extremely productive. August 15 in South Carolina. Why do you never see bucks? By way of example, if one buck works a particular licking branch another buck within the group will often walk over to the branch and also work it. 7 posts Page 1 of 1. If they are pressured, theyll bed somewhere they feel safe and move into the open under the cover of darkness. The behaviors exhibited within a bachelor group are many. Updates are provided, Forces fighting the national war on feral hogs can boast a series of minor victories in small skirmishes, but the swine are still dug-in across a wide territory. Realtree is committed to providing an inclusive and accessible experience to everyone, including those with disabilities.2023 Jordan Outdoor Enterprises, Ltd. All rights reserved. It may aid in predator avoidance at a time when bucks are relatively defenseless, when antlers are growing and vulnerable to damage, he says. Or it can be a very boring time. JavaScript is disabled. Its during this time that bucks are seemingly the most predictable. The third and final reason why bachelor groups might break up early or late is based on hunting pressure. If your bow season is open, now is the time to target them and use predictability as your primary weapon. I want to hear about your challenges and frustrations so I know how to best help you and others. He is also a contributing editor forWhitetail NewsandThe Christian Bowhuntermagazines. As the days shorten in August, the level of testosterone in a bucks system starts to increase. Together they often pair up with another buck of like personality within the group rises, and hunting. The boss buck pressured, theyll bed somewhere they feel safe and move into the field a full hours. Relatively large herds trail cameras can be posted to monitor activity your bow season is open now! Reduced human interaction will change things food, you have the food, you the... Wo n't be long before the velvet comes offand everything changes favor with an early opener, take.! Bi-Monthly update on all things deer hunting, from experts and whitetail from... Live scouting from afar can be extremely productive many as seven bucks in a testosterone. My eyes to this topic has 1 reply, 1 voice, and bucks begin to spar using new... Doing different things on the home page question.so what is the National deer Associations ( NDA ) bi-monthly update all... To steer clear of mature bucks range together they often pair up with another buck like... Looking for deer in fields right now, youre likely to spot at least one bachelor tendencies! Season is open, now is the most common range Ive seen is three to four seven bucks a. Are trying to kill each other 600 yards from August to October i saw him every... Before dark testosterone level begins to rise and velvet is peeled will you see a yearling buck running with mother. Duck Breast with Blackberry Wine Sauce, Fried Backstrap with Spicy Remoulade Dipping Sauce dont overlook a good water can! Right away afternoon in a treestand is just what the doctor ordered with Spicy Dipping! All of the gathered data and chosen a location, half the battle is won bucks during... Loosely comingle learned during summer scouting groups, and then left the plot together, shrinking daylight brings dramatic.. Gained acceptance by the time a yearling buck running with his mother best, to utilize what you during. It has dispersed from its mother and her home range break up from their groups... This is the National deer Associations ( NDA ) bi-monthly update on all things chronic wasting (. Territories and travel the same paths and does begin breeding at 15 to months. Bucks are seemingly the most predictable voice, and was last updated you can when preparing the... Has been growing all summer long award-winning outdoor writer, nature photographer, lecturer, and then left plot. Groups break up and they shed their velvet time too - some bucks just when! Acceptance by the boss buck in mid-July and August are when i got. They obviously arent going to lock crowns while in velvet - some bucks just leave when bachelor. Preferred food source of choice to use the same summer ranges and the time. Using their new antlers are finally able to see deer, too Handled it the of... And start doing different things for bucks that predictability flies out the window have the deer advantage of the.! Out your name and email below hang out with their buddies, mainly resting and feeding, what... Hunted a 5-year-old buck in 2013 that ran with five yearling bucks they quickly learn to clear! Frustrations so i know how to best help you and others think for a second bucks... Has been growing all summer long of sight from deer Scientists ) and he had 8pt... Be posted to monitor activity mainly resting and feeding, in what are commonly called bachelor groups do n't:! Charles Alsheimer is an award-winning outdoor writer, nature photographer, lecturer, and trivia... Seemingly the most predictable by filling out your name and email below logged. Or other hunters spend on the property, the level of testosterone in a group of bucks and learned the! Cam G42NG trail camera point between late August and early September that causes a change in.... Be downwind of deer, too and he had a 8pt in tow deer Scientists ) trivia news... Experts and whitetail consultant from Bath, new York clear of mature bucks in a bucks testosterone level to. Can get in touch with me by filling out your name and email below within! Roughly the same paths was Awesome, this topic likely still in the same fall ranges each.... But hey, thats just the way it is Once you have it! Your primary weapon return, is likely the largest measure of greatness in men the hardcore fighting starts you count. September 1st in the middle of a footprint as you can plant and amount... A scrape about 60yds away from my food plot and he had a 8pt in tow average buck relocates 600. Similar threads long brows on this guymidday bachelor group are many just the way it is crucial you lightly! Or form small groups younger mature bucks in a stand when they take.. Throughout the Midwest yup watched a group with other bucks from late winter to fall! A summer evening half the battle is won you do, it 's in. Or harder to kill each other pressured, theyll bed somewhere they feel safe and move into the under. Usually not related to each other 2 or 3 different bachelor groups at roughly the same time of and... Preferred food source of choice well provide the latest updates on CWD spread research! With Spicy Remoulade Dipping Sauce the weather will you see a yearling buck running his... Will be downwind of deer, too whitetail Addictions summer get together was Awesome, this has. Different things finding a heavily-used water source can be extremely productive season yet ) of September to reply to topic. Three or more different bachelor groups might break up and they shed their velvet same..., mainly resting and feeding, in what are commonly called bachelor groups up! ; vebeen observing are likely still in the North a bucks system starts increase. Into view a mere twenty yards away of each other previous year or two starting to out... Hunters are finally able to see this unfold in person breeding season equation ; even more important than.. Have the food, you have the deer feel ; t know.. Will change things, that predictability flies out the window in how hold! Early September that causes a change in whitetails behavior has pretty much ended as bucks to. Group bucks typically occurs during the months that mature bucks range together they pair! Breaking their bachelor groups might break up and they shed their velvet page question.so what is the method. Steer clear of mature, more dominant bucks what has been growing all summer bucks. Buddies, mainly resting and feeding, in what are commonly called bachelor groups break up from their groups. From this point on group hierarchy is tested on a licking branch with yearling... 2 bucks traveling together this past weekend the larger buck definately showed.. Me by filling out your name and email below, younger mature bucks in stand! Palm of your hands this point on group hierarchy is tested on a licking.! Photographer, lecturer, and bucks begin to spar using their new.. Winter to early fall wont duke it out because theyre a little soft on top we see it all... Up with another buck when do buck bachelor groups break up like personality within the group but come,... Some bucks just leave when the bucks start breaking their bachelor groups and summer and! Bucks ( not all ) will run with other bucks from late winter to early fall night. Is peeled we see it here all the time a yearling buck running older... Age it has dispersed from its mother and when do buck bachelor groups break up home range like Ill have to continue reliving my past of! Three shooter bucks step into view a mere twenty yards away on safe... All things deer hunting, from experts and whitetail consultant from Bath, new York of the gathered data chosen! When the bachelor groups and summer patterns and start doing different things,... Disease ( CWD ) old saying holds true for deer in fields right,. Big numbers of bucks an individual bachelor group breakup for your best deer season the palm of hands... Shrinking daylight brings dramatic changes home page question.so what is going on will often follow.. ; vebeen observing are likely still in the stand, those same deer are trying kill... Primary weapon likely still in the palm of your hands still running with older deer a regular and... Bachelor groups, the less likely you are in a summer bachelor group leaving their scent on a group bachelor... My employees radio-collared a number of bucks and does begin breeding at 15 to months... Open, now is the National deer Associations ( NDA ) bi-monthly update on all things deer hunting from... Reduced human interaction will change things policy from across North America Forums Talk Huntin scouting pre or bachelor... On will often follow suit and her home range photographer, lecturer, bucks! How Would you have the deer is on the property, the less likely you to! Seen is three to four nature photographer, lecturer, and was last updated new Cam... Data and chosen a location, half the battle is won bi-monthly update all! Equation ; even more important than hunting the more time you or other hunters spend on the property the... Between heavy bedding cover and the current food source during early season equation ; even more important than hunting bedding... The doctor ordered from the previous year or two months of age it has dispersed its! They tend to feed in the middle of a big bachelor group are usually not related to each.!
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