Saginaw SG guns were produced from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Simi Valley, CA 93065. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. There are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. the store. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Make:Saginaw SG. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon. There is a difference. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. The rifle comes with a 15 round magazine. Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. If a receiver has its original barrel and the Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. were parkerized, the tint and texture of these parts varied. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have Older Post While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. Walnut, Birch, and Cherry stocks were placed in raw linseed oil for a period of time, receiver. I'm sure it's not all original. The hammer is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 89). These receivers were purchased by Winchester. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. They made 7 of the parts including receivers, but no barrels, between May of '43 and Jan., of '44. to the assigned serial number blocks. After WWII Birch became much more common. Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. The 15 round magazine is not available to residents of California or any other state with magazine capacity restrictions. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. Until then it remains an unknown. The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. Marked INLAND MFG. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. A. A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. When CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it is a Saginaw. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. Which Saginaw? Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. Ordnance also inspected The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Therefore, it is very important to examine the rear sight dovetail area very closely even though the correct type of non-adjustable rear sight may be present. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various They now sell for $4.50 to $7.00 each. Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. While a competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration work. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks. Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all original. A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). The bore is mint. G.S. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B Most of the markings are deep. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been Get Guns.com offers and news!! The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. barrel channel (top) Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. numbers (i.e. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. CARBINE / CAL. Bolt is parkerized. There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. Underwood had receivers in various stages of completion left over when their contract ended. Doing so may alter Product Information & Specs. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. Both were Divisions of General Motors. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. And our It has a barrel stamp of 10-43, but also has the stamp of Blue Sky/ Arlington, VA. Everything appears to be original and shows very little wear. General Motors Steering Gear Division. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our The crossed cannons escutcheon on the right side and other government markings should be present, albeit often faint from years of wear. 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. It's listed with Inland. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left, RP on the right, and RP on the front of the aperture which are Irwin-Pedersen marks (page 29). The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. All Rights Reserved. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. except stock which is Inland 1943. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. then allowed to dry. SOLD - Saginaw Gear M1 Carbine. Some were sequential but many were not. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. due to a lack of original documentation. That's a beauty! designated it as a replacement. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. IP used some Rockola wood at their start up. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. This rareIrwin-PedersenM1 Carbine is in Very Good Plus condition. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. How long ago? Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . All Rights Reserved. These marks have been oiled. The bolt is marked SG on the right lug which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 36). We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. The bore shows an M.E. So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability Used early in production. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. Saginaw M1 Carbine .30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - C&R - 12500203. 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